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+1 -2hususları söylemek istiyorum panpalar. aslında tanrı inancına sahip bazı kimselerin aklına geldiğinde de kafasını karıştıran konular.
ben şu konuları ele alıcam:
1) tanrı bizi neden yarattı? böyle bir gereksinimi var mıydı?
2) benlik nedir nereden gelir?
3) yaratmak nedir? i̇nsanlar tarafından olmayan birşey var edilebilir mi?
4) evrim nedir? var mıdır? gerçek midir, yalan mıdır?
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1) tanrı bizi neden yarattı? böyle bir gereksinimi var mıdır?
bu soruyu cevaplamak için öncelikle tanrı kavrdıbının anlaşılması gerekir. tanrı; taraf tutmaz, adaletlidir, nötr davranır, herşeyden bağımsızdır, sonsuz bilgi ve kudret sahibidir, somut olarak düşünülemez çünkü diğer var olan herşeyden maddi olarak bağımsızdır...
burada ateist panpaların sevmediği temel konu adaletsizlik ve nötr olmama konularıdır.
olaylara bakarken mikro boyuttan çıkıp makro boyutta baktığımızda nötr olduğunu görürüz. ama bunu yapabilmek için kesinlikle olaylara objektif bakılmalı. altını çizerek söylüyorum. objektif bakılmalıdır.
aslında bu mevzuyu adaletle destekleyebiliriz. adaletsizlik varsa nötr olmak söz konusu değildir. şimdi bir insanının dünyadaki yaptığı iyilik ve kötülüklere bakıldığında ve yine dünyada gördüğü iyilik ve kötülükleri topladığımızda aynı oranda olmadığını görürüz. peki tanrı adaletliyse neden herkes eşit değil? aslında bir eşitlik sözkonusudur. nasıl? gelen bütün semavi dinlere bakıldığında hep ölümden sonra yaşamla alakalı birşeyler tasvir edilmiştir. cennet ve cehennem. peki cennet cehennem var diye düşünsek o zaman cennete gidenler sizce daha da avantajlı değil mi? ya da aynı şekilde cehenneme gidenlerin dezavantajlı değil mi? açık ve net cevap veriyorum: hayir. neden hayır? çünkü tanrı insanı bu konuda kesin bir dille -hangi döneme bakılırsa bakılsın yine bu görülecektir- açıklamıştır. tanrının katı bir şekilde kestirip attığını düşünebilirsiniz ama insanlar kör davranıyor buna emin olun. peki neden daha fazla acı veya zevk vardır.(burada şunu dabelirtmek isterim: cennete veya cehenneme gitmiş değilim, ama tasvir ve anlatımlara göre ben bunu çıkardım.) orada herşey duygusal derinliklerde yaşanır. nasıl ki rüyada bazı şeyler manasız olsa da bizi çok etkiler. hatta bazen 1 hafta etkisinde kalırız. i̇şte rüya anında gördüklerimizi kör uzuvlarımızla hissetmeyiz. yani bir bakıma uzuvlarımızın algıladığı kadarıyla. uzuvla alakalı bilgi vermek gerekirse; küçükken insanlara herşey daha tatlı gelir. küçükken yediğiniz karpuzun tadını unutamazsınız. aynı şekilde kokuların. peki şimdi neden böyle az haz veriyor. çünkü bu zaman süreci içerisinde bir sürü sinir hücresi kaybettik gerek beyin gerekse uzuv olarak. kaç kez dilimizi çay içerken haşladık. aynı zamanda bunun hormonal dolayısıyla duygusal bir boyutu da vardır. çocuklar duygusaldır ve aynı şekilde duygusal insanların hisleri daha kuvvetlidir. mesela şairler: çiçeği kokladıklarında hissettikleri normal insanlara göre daha derindir.
umarım bu his mevzuyu anlatabilmişimdir. i̇şte bunu kat be katı cennet ve cehennemde hissedilir. duymuşsunuzdur beynimizi ahiret aleminde %100 oranında kullanabileceğimizi.
şimdi gelelim tanrı bizi neden yarattı konusuna. evet tanrının bize ihtiyacı yok. i̇badet edelim diye mi yaratıldık? evet. peki mevzunun altında yatan asıl sebep bu mudur? hayır. peki nedir?
tanrının çeşitli sıfatları vardır. i̇slam dininde bunların biri de subuti sıfatlardan(yani tek allahın kendi zatında olmayan sıfat manasına gelir. yani bir nebze de yarattığı varlıklara vermiştir.) i̇rade sıfatı.
peki irade nedir? i̇rade karar vermektir, bilinen bilgileri birbiriyle tartmak mülahaza etmektir(buna biz kendimiz için "düşünmek" fiilini vermişiz.), istemektir...
i̇şte burada "istemek!!!" çok önemlidir. yani bilinmeyen bir hazine neden bilinmek ister? çünkü ister. buradaki asıl mevzu istemektir. tanrı bizi yaratmayı istemiştir, arzu etmiştir ve kendi kudretiyle yaratmıştır. neden istemiştir? bunu ben de bilmiyorum. bilemezsiniz zaten. sonsuz bilgi sahibi değilseniz bilemezsiniz.
i̇şte istediği için aslında böyle bir gereksinimi de yoktur. sonsuz bilgi, sonsuz kudret ve herşeyden bağımsız bir irade istediği şeyi yaratır vücut eder. neden diye sorgulanması mantıksız kaçar. yani sebebi bilinemez.
bunlar benin düşüncem.i̇steyen adam haklı beyler der. i̇steyen saçmalamış der.
i̇steğinize göre diğer konulara değineceğim
edit:panpalar özet geçemiyorum en sade hali. okuyun yararım hepinizi.
ulan önyargısız davranamaz mısınız siz ya
bu mevzuyu kapatıyorum giblenmediğim için
bu konuda merakı olan kafasına soru takılanlar pm den ulaşsın daha bakmicam başlığa
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0reserved
edit:panpa özet gec lütfen -
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0@1 http://www.ateistforum.org/index.php?showtopic=41940 al güzel kardeşim biraz bilgi girsin kafana bi daha böyle başlıklar açmassın
edit: yaratılmadıysa nasıl yarattı ( bu sorumada cevap ver ) - 4.
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0@3 güzel panpam o siteye girdim zaten ben. baktım daha önce
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0reserved
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0panpa 4ü tartışırım seninle sonuna kadar
not:ateist değilim -
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0bende ateist değilim lan yanlış anlamayın deistim ama kafama takılan tek soru yaratılmadıysa nasıl yarattı
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-1zaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa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Göster
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+1ateistim. o soruların soruların hiçbiri gibimde değil http://29.media.tumblr.co...06jkzd721qaz0qto1_500.jpg
http://inci.ca/u871cbv1tp -
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0@8 panpa tartışalım istiyorsan. herkes düşüncesini söylesin ki doğru düşüncelerimiz ve yanlış düşüncelerimiz ortaya çıksın
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0@9 yapma panpam ya bu soru artık kimsenin kafasını karıştırmıyor. ama istiyorsan at pmden sana izah edeyim olayı
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0@11 lan feryad-ul am. azıcık gible şu dünyayı.
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0upupupupup
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0upupupupupuup
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0çok uzun panpa
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0upupupupupuup
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0@12 evrim var mıdır?
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0@3 insan aklı bi yerde tıkılıp kalır kardeşim. çözemezsin.halbuki insan beyninin %20 sini kullansa dünyayı ters çevirebilecek güce sahipmiş. bilimsel olarak kanıtlandı bu.
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0@19 panpa benim bu konuda düşüncelerim aslında ne evrim ne de şuan diyanetin açıklaması olan yaratılış. zenci insanlara bir anlam veremiyorum. aynı zamanda ardı ardına gelen onca oluşumun tesadüf olacağına da